Michael --
It's entirely possible my physics is out of date. You are right that I
want to locate the processing somewhere. It is more accurate perhaps to
say I want to locate the _responsibility_ for communicating and
understanding in the people. That is where all the processing power is
located.
When you say
I hear you wanting to locate processing, value and information in
physical, identifiable locations. But, isn't it so in physics as well as
things like meaning, patterns, understanding that that what occurs occurs
in the spaces between things? If we say, these things occur in an
individual (receiver or sender) and then look into each of those, we'll
find the same problem: Does it occur in a single location in the brain or
being? Does it occur in a single cell? Does it occur in a single
electron of a cell?.
== end quaote ==
>From a physical perspective, the answer is yes and no. When we get to the
quantum mechanics world, your description is good, so therefore the answer
is yes. So, if we pursue the resting place for the final location of the
discovery of understanding, we are likely to find it -- at least
theoretically -- in some relatively empty space in the brain. But the
brain is located in someone's skull, and that person is responsible for
searching for the meanings. So while you are correct about the meaning
occuring in the space, I am correct that it also is occurring in someone's
head. If I understand you correctly. The space is not between the
participants, but within the brain of one or both of them (I'm using a
2-person communication model).
== back to Michael ==
We will always find that nothing occurs in the solid, physical location
but it actually occurs only when there is space. So might it not be
better to make the fundamental shift in our thinking to think of things
occurring in spaces? If we make that shift, then we begin to look to
creation or design of spaces in which things can occur and from which
things can emerge.
I maintain that emergence is a term of cause and effect and it can only be
applied when we refer to what occurs in spaces.
== end quote ==
Can you give me some examples of the power of this notion? I am a blank
slate.
== back to Michael ==
Senders and receivers, like brains, cells and electrons, are all necessary
components but are not the source or location of the events, in this
interpretation.
You say,
> It just seems that the notion of some kind of processor
> is essential, as that is where meaning is identified.
Yes. The meaning "settles" or registers in individuals as participants
and complex entities via complex means - but necessarily as "senders and
receivers". But because it registers and can be identified their, doesn't
mean that is where the phenomenon occurs. This approach is a little like
focussing on the scoreboard in a basketball game because that's where
winning and losing occur - except where they occur in action is on the
court.
== end quote ==
On the one hand I understand what you say, but then I wonder what meaning
will there be if we take away a receiver or a sender? In fact, this
happens sometimes, when two people are talking at each other, but not
listening to each other. But if we physically remove one of the two
people, then let the other person carry on a monologue, what communication
occurs then?
== Michael ==
The focus on "ultimate understanding" isn't the only focus for
communication - even in an environment of coordinated action and
responsibility for results. The major purpose of communication, in my
view and interest, is generation of something new - something which didn't
exist in any of the participants before. (I tend to focus on multi-person
communication but the principles apply when there are only two directly
involved.) In this domain, who is responsible for ultimate understanding
is not particularly relevant. Even who is responsible the occurrence of
"generative thinking" is not particularly relevant. It will emerge from
intention and effectiveness or it won't. (And there are linguistic
processes that make it a sufficiently reliable outcome for business to
invest in.)
== end quote ==
I am not trying to locate responsibility for understanding in one
individual, but in all the individuals. Does this help?
--Rol Fessenden LL Bean, Inc. 76234.3636@compuserve.com
Learning-org -- An Internet Dialog on Learning Organizations For info: <rkarash@karash.com> -or- <http://world.std.com/~lo/>