On 18 Jul 96 at 23:15, Rol Fessenden wrote:
> Then Robert leaps too far at least for me, when he says, "However,
> to say that we hold universal values, but often don't act consistent
> with those values, means that the concept of values is virtually
> meaningless "out there" where people live and behave. It makes
> values largely irrelevant to individuals and organizations."
>
> This is similar to opinions about universal values not existing
> unless each and every person espouses them. a valid alternative, in
> my mind could be that a value would be universal if all of the major
> governing organizations -- churches, states, and perhaps
> philosophies -- espoused them.
Two points. First, we have a definitional issue. For me universal means
the universe, each and every one, the totality. If you are using a
different definition, perhaps it would help me understand if you would
share it.
Second, I am talking about whether there ARE universal values, not whether
there WOULD be IF [fill in statement]. IF the world were completely
different, many things might be different, and perhaps we WOULD all hold
the same values--one can conceive of such a possibility (an interesting
exercise). Apart from the philosophically interesting point, what is the
purpose of suggesting that we would or could have universal values if the
world was different?
> Similarly, if a person generally is kind, then we tend to regard
> that person as a kind person. Examples of unkindness would make us
> wonder why the person was acting out of character, but unless there
> were many examples, we would still regard that person as kind. A
> person can have high integrity, and yet, fall down from time to
> time. Thus, to say, as Robert later says, that values do not
> explain anything is going a bit far. We all know people who act
> generally in accord with their values.
Rol, again, perhaps I am not being clear. VALUES unconnected to BEHAVIOURS
are in effect, non-existent, and non-operative. They may exist in the
perceptual world of the individual, but no where else. I hold certain
values. I am not perfect. Sometimes I screw up. My values are very
important to me, and so it is incumbent on me to work at making my
behavour consistent with my values.
I think values are VERY important. I just don't think that my values are
necessarily yours. And, if I say I am honest but lie more than once in a
while (disconnecting values from behaviour), my values are worthless.
I hope this clarifies a bit.
Robert Bacal, CEO, Institute For Cooperative Communication
dbt359@freenet.mb.ca, Located in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
(204 888-9290.
--"Robert Bacal" <dbt359@freenet.mb.ca>
Learning-org -- An Internet Dialog on Learning Organizations For info: <rkarash@karash.com> -or- <http://world.std.com/~lo/>