Cooperation, consulting and Fads LO7448

Jesse W. White (
Wed, 15 May 1996 21:24:31 -0500 (CDT)

Replying to LO7409 --

Hello LOers:

.... If Senge and Knowles, Bandura, Freire, etc. work into a system,
then the Adult or Person or (your word here) human that works in the/a
system is a learning entity and infinitely complicated. However, given a
system of so called Quality, then complication requirements turn to
simplification requirements. Data collection systems can be soooo
overbearing that the system requires cheating to maintain it. ISO 9000
seems to be the answer, but are the data collection interventions and
processes making liars out of employees?

Jesse White
Doctoral Student in HRD
University of Arkansas

"Industry without art is brutality" Coomaraswamy

Referring to the messages below....

On Mon, 13 May 1996 wrote:

> John Zavacki observed:
> > One company that began as a client for a business plan is now using
> > us to do organizational, info system, and factory design. Another
> > that opted for having us develop documentation for ISO 9002 refused
> > to go any further...
> I agree with John; ISO 9000 should be *a* system, not *the* system.
> A bit more about ISO 9000 systems: ISO 900x requires that there be a
> documented quality system. Workers must follow the system, and the
> system must be effective in preventing product and/or service
> nonconformities.
> In addition, the quality system must be documented with procedures
> that are authorized by a responsible authority, and are controlled to
> make sure that workers use the latest revision of their procedures.
> ISO 9000 quality systems create limits to organizational learning,
> following the archetype of "Limits to Growth" described in "The Fifth
> Discipline." The limiting condition cycle includes these five events:
> 1) the system improvement is identified, 2) the system improvement is
> described in a procedure and authorized, 3) the revised procedure is
> somehow distributed, 4) |DELAY| while workers learn the new
> procedure, and finally, 5) the new procedure (system improvement) is
> implemented.


"Jesse W. White" <>

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