In reply to Clyde Howell's thoughtful post Dick Wolff advocated
>Undoubtedly that is often true, but there are enough exceptions
>to rule out the idea that 'God' is mere 'projection'.
Can you cite your exceptions please. In studying world religions and
philosophies I find multiple beliefs in the concept of god and
multiple unbeliefs. There is even a viable theory that everything
we perceive is a projection of our own minds.
>But the word 'God' itself clearly implies 'that which is true for all
>things all of the time'.
Again I inquire to your basis for the assumption that this word
implies that which is true for all things all of the time? I know
some atheists that are very good people and are very successful
in their relationships and life.
>experiences you *may* be talking about 'God', but unless that
>experience is recognisable by others as an experience of Ultimate
>Truth it may be mere dangerous delusion.
I would submit that many people throughout the world believed
that Hitler held the ultimate truth for Germany. Only in afterthought
and only some of them have changed their opinion. I do not think that
our experiences are a valid measure.
>My problems with the individualistic approach to life is the all-too-eager
>efforts to undermine serious religious discourse by which human beings,
>*together*, seek to learn what God (Ultimate Truth) is like. 'God' is not a
>variable (and therefore socially meaningless) word for individuals to
>deploy as they see fit.
When I experience my Hindu and Buddhist friends concept of god, it is a
variable. ( Please understand that I do not wish to exclude any of my friends
who's religion is based on the Abraham (Ibrihimic) traditions, rather I
wish to draw from far afield of these.) Joseph Campbell called it a god of a
thousand faces. As I experience the great variety of people and their search
for the meaning of life I find such diversity that I cannot reconcile my narrow
view of god as being the ultimate truth. I prefer Huston Smith's insight into
the wisdom religious beliefs. When I reflect on the variety of them and
on my friend's beliefs I can only conclude that god is manifest in many
ways and does mean different things to different people.
>To which I say : these beliefs about the nature of Ultimate Reality
>absolutely cannot be decided by an individual. They absolutely must
>be decided through mutual commitment to dialogue, each party speaking
>out of a genuine commitment and experience of God.
This can only be successful if all those participating in the dialog are
willing and able to give up their current commitment to their god or
gods.
>The whole point was that an individual cannot conclusively know, but
>neither can we avoid the discomfort of disagreement about the most
>fundamental truth every human being sooner or later has to address by
>saying (in effect) "whatever works for you".
I think your assumption is that there is a life after this life. Can you
confirm that and then support it by fact and logic.
>To say that Ultimate
>Reality is "what works for me" is to set self up as the sole knower
>of Truth - the height of arrogance! In order to avoid this, you then
>suggest that Ultimate Reality is *also* "whatever works for you. That
>sounds like humility, but actually means one of two things.
What is reality if not my perception of life as I live it? I once said to a
very respected Black man when giving him a choice that I could not make
the choice because I had not lived in his black skin. He was taken aback,
and admitted that I was the first white man that had recognized that
stark fact which separated our experience and made our realities
different.
I said at the beginning of this thread that we should seek the wisdom of
all the great religions and seek how they apply to Learning Organizations.
All of these deal with the human spirit and it is in this spirit that we
find our basic intent. If we are to study how to make learning organizations
most effectively we should draw from this wisdom rather than defend one or
or another form of religion.
--bhobler@worldnet.att.net Bill Hobler
Learning-org -- An Internet Dialog on Learning Organizations For info: <rkarash@karash.com> -or- <http://world.std.com/~lo/>