System Cannot Understand Itself LO6146

Andrew Moreno (
Thu, 21 Mar 1996 03:17:58 -0800 (PST)

Replying to LO6075 --

On 9 Mar 1996, Dr. Scott J. Simmerman wrote:

> >Scott, I hope you will consider your problem to be dissolved. The
> >key to it is to stop believing that the model of objectivity versus
> >subjectivity gives us a real advantage in improving systems. On the
> >contrary, that model is one of the fundamental obstacles in the way
> >of improving systems.

I agree with John.

> Thus, I believe that if the *organization* would only stop doing what
> it has always done, step back from the wagon and _objectively_ view
> the situation for what is happening, then the organization and its
> people might discover more effective ways of doing things.

I think this John addresses this in his "poly-loop" system -
generally equivalent to Argyris at Harvard's double-loop learning.

I wrote earlier regarding this - I think that even if the organization
objectively views the situation, their solutions will still be a rehash
- the learning is still double loop learning - Bateson's learning level

Andrew Moreno


Andrew Moreno <>

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