> Julie wrote:
> >When At said:
> >>However, I fear that there is too much comensal and too little mutual
> >>symbiosis in this forum.
> >
> >I was not sure what this meant. I am drawign all sorts of conclusions
> >which I suspect may be right out of line so I would be grateful if you
> >could say more about what it is about the forum which makes you think
> >there is too much comensal symbiosis?
>
> I would like to add my voice to Julie's here
Isabel and Julie,
Thank you very much for expressing concern about what I have wrote. I must
agree that saying too little is as dangerous as saying too much. Please
study my reply to Julie. If you care to differ, please do so and let me
know why.
> >>It is very difficult
> >>for very creative people to enjoy mutual symbiosis.
>
> At, please could you explain what prompts you to say this?
I would rather not prefer to mention my own experiences. A number of
psychologists such as Frank Barron, Calvin Taylor and Paul Torrance have
studied highly creative people in order to find out what makes them so
creative. (I cannot think now of any specific references, but you ought to
find enough under these names.) It has been found that while each of these
highly creative people are usually an enigma to the other people they live
with, they have many characterestics common among themselves. Most of
these common characteristics (visionary, motivated, fast action, big
jumps, intuition) point to the revolutionary or emergent phase of
creativity. It is exactly that which causes them to become enigmatic to
others which prevents mutual symbiosis between them and others.
> Surely mutual symbiosis is one of the most creative experiences people can
> have? Can we really describe some people as very creative without
> contributions from other people?
You are on the right track. No creation happen in the void. All new
creations have to emerge by means of past creations. For example,
Einstein's Special theory of Relativity (SR) made use of a number of past
creations like the Michelson-Morley experiment, Newton's and Maxwell's
laws, the Lorentz transformations, etc. Yet the emergence of SR was due to
Einstein and nobody else. It took almost a generation (25 years) after the
anouncement of SR before scientists could set up a recognisable mutual
symbiosis on this theory. During the first 25 years only a handful of
people could manage mutual understandings based on SR.
> Julie wrote
> > my sense is that everyone has something to offer someone else. I
> >am uncomfortable with the picture of people at the front's edge - my sense
> >is that there are many fronts and I do not want to stand at all of them
> >although I am glad that someone is...
>
> I feel equally uncomfortable. My experience is that when you appreciate
> other people, they reveal unexpected and beautiful facets of themselves,
> as in a treasure chest. Perhaps we are blind to some of the other fronts
> at which others stand.
Please study my reply to Julie.
> I love the way Danah Zohar puts it: 'I need your difference to bring more
> of myself'
Creativity is not a closed subject. Morality, like spirituality, is a
qualification of creativity. We find the full spectrum (saints to
criminals) of morality among highly creative persons. What you have
written, is very true of the positive side of the spectrum. It can
occasionally also be true of the negative side, but usually the converse
is true. To formulate it with your words, if you appreciate other people,
they reveal unexpected and abominable facets of themselves as in a torture
chamber. (We in South Africa are now experiencing this truth in the
aftermath of the destruction of apartheid through the hearings of the
Truth and Reconsiliation Comission, as it was the case with nazism, etc.)
That is why Jesus gives us some double barrel advice: be as sincere as
doves and as cautious as snakes.
I liked the quotation of Danah Zohar very much. It let me think of a
thought that I often cherish: the deep attractor of reality (material and
abstract) is maximum diversity.
> What a great discussion!
- for me also. Thank you very much for your patience, especially since
English is not my native communication language.
Best wishes
--At de Lange Gold Fields Computer Centre for Education University of Pretoria Pretoria, South Africa email: amdelange@gold.up.ac.za
Learning-org -- An Internet Dialog on Learning Organizations For info: <rkarash@karash.com> -or- <http://world.std.com/~lo/>