Michael McMaster (LO10490) wrote a note:
>*Note: control doesn't apply to living systems AS LIVING SYSTEMS.
>It appplies to parts of living systems or those ones that can be
>viewed as physical, material systems. For instance, I can move my
>hand with more or less complete control by the mechanics of nerves,
>muscles, etc.
Jack Hirschfeld was puzzled by this note (LO10532). He writes (LO10597):
>From my perspective the phrase "I can move my hand..." would only
>have meaning if the hand were severed, as sometimes happens in an
>industrial accident. Otherwise, the phrase simply reinforces the
>illusory
>notion that "I" and "my hand" are two different entities.
I read the words "I can move my hand..." in Micheal's note as an example
of applying the notion of control to a part of a living system. An then I
agree with Michael. It can be very usefull saying (or thinking) that one
can move one's hand. Of course, this is an illusion, but sometimes it is a
usefull illusion.
When I red Michael's note correctly, he might as well have writen "For
instance, I can say "I can move my hand..." ". And, maybe, then Jack
wasn't as puzzled by the note as he is now.
BTW: Jack writes that he and Micheal have a "long-standing disagreement".
Do you have any kind of agreement on the subject of this disagreement? I
have subscribed to this list just a month ago, so I missed the relevant
history.
Arnout Esser <aesser@xs4all.nl>
Amsterdam - The Netherlands
--Arnout Esser <aesser@xs4all.nl>
Learning-org -- An Internet Dialog on Learning Organizations For info: <rkarash@karash.com> -or- <http://world.std.com/~lo/>