Traditional Wisdom LO9338

Christian Giroux (lmccgir@LMC.Ericsson.SE)
Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:04:09 -0400 (EDT)

Replying to LO9313 --

> Roxanne S. Abbas" <75263.3305@CompuServe.COM> raise the distinction
> between system and culture:
> >...
> >I have always thought of the term "system" as being inclusive of the roles
> >and responsibilites of staff and managers. ... But I have seen many fine people struggling in an
> >unhealthy culture. Is "culture" different from "system"? I believe that
> >we are all (regardless of how we measure on the responsibility index)
> >influenced by the environment we live and work in. Over time most of us
> >will begin to look and act like the people we keep company with. ...

To which Keith Cowan responds:

> The distinction I would make is that an organization is composed of
> many systems which interact. The reward system is distinct for the
> hiring system, although a good and public rewards system will attract
> people into the hiring system, for example.

(more good stuff deleted here)

Keith, I'd like you to consider the following (which is probably supporting
Roxanne's statement):

No system exists outside of another (exception made of the Universe as far as
physics can tell, and even there, the consensus is not clear). This means there
is always a higher level of system, or, in other words, anything one can call
a system is a subsystem of a system (whoa...the word "system" becomes easy to
type). Calling something a system instead of a subsystem is just a matter of
convention or agreement for the particular issue being dealt with.

And I like to think that the interactions between what you call the hiring
system and the reward system (and all the others in the organization) are
constituents of the culture, as the medium for those interactions to happen
is more often people, with their mental models (shared or not, conscious or not)...

But then, as you say further in your posting, changing the processes (hiring
system, compensation for salesforce) is one source of leverage to change the
system, the culture...There is a whole slew of other possibilities...Creativity
is the limit...

Best Regards,
Christian

--

Christian Giroux <lmccgir@lmc.ericsson.se> System Support Manager, Technical Assistance Center Ericsson Research Inc. Montreal

Learning-org -- An Internet Dialog on Learning Organizations For info: <rkarash@karash.com> -or- <http://world.std.com/~lo/>