Christianity and 5th discipline LO9325

Johanna Rothman (jr@world.std.com)
Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:48:38 -0400

Replying to LO9305 --

At 9:15 AM 8/21/96, Kerr, Donald wrote:

>Salvation of the world will not come by reading management books and
>managing change. As Senge says in the Fifth Discipline, "The truth will
>set us free." I was taught that Christ meant "The Truth" will set you
>free. Why then is long-faced religion the norm? Why is the burden
>heavy? I now see that "truth" is- honesty about ourselves and with
>others...a humble openness to allow others, through love and dialogue,
>help us all to become all God wanted us to be! This truth allows God to
>freely move and unite. This is the truth that set me free from
>long-faced religion! This is the great adventure!
>
>When I or anyone speaks the truth and exposes themselves on these
>Internet lists...do you not feel set free? Do you not feel an
>overwhelming sense of God? How then can we separate Christianity (and
>others) from the Fifth Discipline, or truth?

To me, Christianity, or any religion, has nothing specifically to do with
Systems Thinking. Here's what Systems Thinking gives me:
- a way to communicate my mental models in a non-threatening,
non-judgemental way. Religion does not give me any of that.
- a way to explore more fully how things in the world really work. Maybe
this is your "truth".

My religious beliefs are completely different from yours. Religion to me is
not so much an "overlay" of how I see the world, as much as it is an
underpinning of how I see the world. Since my religion is a personal belief
(ethics, mores, etc.) system, it affects my actions, but not what I see or
how I see it. Reading your post suggests that your religion is like a pair
of glasses- you see everything through it. My religion is like underwear- I
sit in it, but I don't see the world through it. It affects my actions in
the world but not my vision of the world. There must be a better metaphor,
but I can't think of one.

Now that I've explained my mental model of how religion works for me,
please realize that your "When I or anyone speaks" paragraph truly offends
me. What I read in that paragraph is that your religion colors the way you
see the world. And, that you do not understand anyone else's way of seeing
the world. To me, Christianity has little or no concept of systems
thinking- as an example, much of Christianity uses a spiritual leader as a
conduit between the congregation and God. Why should there be some human
being who has the "telephone line"? Why don't we all have the telephone
lines? (Why is the stock limited?)

So, when you say that Christianity is truth is Systems Thinking, I not only
disagree with you, but I have no way to pursue my mental models with you.
This is the antithesis of ST.

I have no wish to offend anyone of any religion with this post. Please
recognize that there are many of us who do not belong to your religion, who
do not see the world as you see it. I do not worship at the altar of system
dynamic or causal loop diagram models, but unless you are willing to
subject your vision to some sort of modeling we can discuss, then you are
setting down as truths things that I know to be absolutely positively
wrong. What we need is a way to communicate our truths to each other- and I
can't figure out how to do that with your post, and others similar to it.

And, when I post, I do not have a feeling of being set free, nor do I have
an overwhelming sense of anything, except perhaps dread that I'll be flamed
for being inappropriate. (wry :-)

Johanna

--
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voice:617-641-4046    fax:617-641-2764       jr@world.std.com
Management Consulting for High Technology Product Development

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